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Worms Clan Wars

For Boggy B and his mates. If they existed, of course.

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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Postby Zeor » Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:22 pm

The thing about Brock Lesnar is he was actually terrifyingly fast for his size. He was more like the real-world Bald Bull, except Bald Bull knew how to actually fight.

Oh. Uhh, the game sounds interestingish sort of I guess. Sounds like they want to refine some of the less perfect qualities of Revolution and also add some clan gimmick I pretty much guarantee I don't care about.
Thurbo wrote:Too bad your brain ain't capable of computing 3D environments. Shooters aren't exactly your thing I assume?

Do you actually read the things you post?
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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Postby MtlAngelus » Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:41 pm

Thurbo wrote:I'm not interested in talking to you about that at all. It was him saying he had difficulties seeing what's going on on-screen with the game having 3D graphics a while ago.

It's the lack of precision that annoys me about the switch to 2.5D. I'll just quote Russ Frushtick's review from Polygon.com:

Worms revolves around precision. The best players will tell you that knowing exactly how a grenade will bounce off the landscape or whether your worm can backflip onto a higher ledge is the difference between a win and a loss. The introduction of 3D landscapes throws all of this precision out the window. There are too many variables and no easy way to tell whether a slight slant in the landscape will have any effect on your grenade.

That ledge? Apparently I can't jump onto it, because there's some tiny, near-invisible outcropping of polygons preventing it from happening. When the environments were in 2D, every change in the landscape was crisp, clear and obvious. If you were good enough you could plan every jump. In Worms: Revolution, that sort of precision is impossible.


To that I would add the addition of depth to terrains, it makes it much harder to pull off a shot through an opening in terrain because it's really hard to tell what the trajectory of the weapon will be and what the actual edges of the collision mask are, whereas using a purely 2D engine it would be pixel perfect.

This doesn't make the game unplayable of course, but makes it more frustrating and less fun, and there's no need for it. The 2.5D look adds nothing to the game, just makes it less precise and sluggish. And it looks like arse.
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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Postby SupSuper » Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:33 pm

Thurbo wrote:
MtlAngelus wrote:Blegh, another 2.5D game. Pass.


Too bad your brain ain't capable of computing 3D environments. Shooters aren't exactly your thing I assume?
Alright knock it off you two, this isn't the Team17 Forum any more, if you can't even discuss an upcoming game without turning it into petty insults, I'm more than happy to do something about it.
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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Postby LeTotalKiller » Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:37 pm

MtlAngelus wrote:This doesn't make the game unplayable of course, but makes it more frustrating and less fun, and there's no need for it. The 2.5D look adds nothing to the game, just makes it less precise and sluggish. And it looks like arse.


I remember that one of my few WRev games was ruined due to an endless loop due to a pile of three worms belonging to different classes (IIRC, it was a Scout endlessly trying to fall on the ground between two worms). So yeah, frustrating indeed.
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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Postby MtlAngelus » Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:39 pm

SupSuper wrote:
Thurbo wrote:
MtlAngelus wrote:Blegh, another 2.5D game. Pass.


Too bad your brain ain't capable of computing 3D environments. Shooters aren't exactly your thing I assume?
Alright knock it off you two, this isn't the Team17 Forum any more, if you can't even discuss an upcoming game without turning it into petty insults, I'm more than happy to do something about it.


I'm not insulting anyone. :|
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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Postby SupSuper » Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:08 pm

MtlAngelus wrote:I'm not insulting anyone. :|

Keep up the good work.
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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Postby Alien King » Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:41 am

I've not played a Worms game since Reloaded...
I think that was my last T17 beta as well (it was after Alien Breed right?).

So erm... I have no idea what this class thing is. You say another Worms game already uses it? How does that play out?
And is the Ninja Rope still going to be a pile of shite?
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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Postby Thurbo » Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:13 pm

MtlAngelus wrote:
That ledge? Apparently I can't jump onto it, because there's some tiny, near-invisible outcropping of polygons preventing it from happening. When the environments were in 2D, every change in the landscape was crisp, clear and obvious. If you were good enough you could plan every jump. In Worms: Revolution, that sort of precision is impossible.


To that I would add the addition of depth to terrains, it makes it much harder to pull off a shot through an opening in terrain because it's really hard to tell what the trajectory of the weapon will be and what the actual edges of the collision mask are, whereas using a purely 2D engine it would be pixel perfect.


It isn't once you are used to it. Tiny pixels have always been hard to spot even in the 2D games but the difference compared to polygons is marginal. The collision mask matches the landscape near perfectly. The current engine adds a less artificial feeling to the physics as well which I personally value a lot.

MtlAngelus wrote:
Worms revolves around precision. The best players will tell you that knowing exactly how a grenade will bounce off the landscape or whether your worm can backflip onto a higher ledge is the difference between a win and a loss. The introduction of 3D landscapes throws all of this precision out the window. There are too many variables and no easy way to tell whether a slight slant in the landscape will have any effect on your grenade.


Honestly, to get this sort of precision in every single one of your shots you'd have to play the game for an effing long time and take it seriously. Like, competitively serious. From my experience, the difference between 2D and 3D is not that crucial providing you have a bit of experience in either of them. 2D means a slightly better overview for sure, but it's really just... minor, to the extent that it shouldn't matter at all. Especially since they will probably never return to the old, unrealistic but "easier" physics of the 2nd generation anyway.
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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Postby Worm Mad » Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:40 pm

Hm. A sequel to Worms Revolution, eh? We'll see how that goes. I thought some of the ideas were interesting for Rev but the execution wasn't great. If they can fix that, it could be a fun game.

So erm... I have no idea what this class thing is. You say another Worms game already uses it? How does that play out?


Put simply, there are now four types of worms. There's the soldier type (essentially the normal type you've seen in all other worms games), heavy type (slow, but big and tough), scientist (good at creating sentries, etc. also heals team members by a small amount each turn) and scout (small and fast but weak). You can make up your team from a combination of any of these.
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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Postby Thurbo » Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:37 pm

_Kilburn wrote:...as well as a day/night cycle according to the HUD. This is certainly going to be interesting.


Wait, I didn't notice that until now... according to the article which mentions "monkeys occassionally stealing crates", I believe theme-specific events as seen in OW2/Space Oditty/Battle Islands are back. Perhaps the day/night cycle changes what event may occur. Or it's just a gimmick like in the 3D games, though if that were the case, there'd be no reason for it to show up on the HUD.
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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Postby Pooka » Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:38 pm

Star and Moon wrote:Also they seem to be showing off Superfrog HD at Rezzed.


This in particular pisses me off.
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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Postby Bloopy » Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:19 am

By the time this comes out I'll probably be in the mood for playing a Worms game again, although maybe not enough to make a clan successful. They've already tried the class thing in Revolution, so it ought to be nicely refined, at least in theory. 8-)
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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Postby Squirminator2k » Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:58 am

After the disaster that was Revolution, and the generally poor handling of 2D Worms over the last six years, I can't say I'm particularly optimistic about Clan Wars.

And Superfrog HD looks like shit. It does. I wish it didn't. The game deserves so much better than the sub-par Flash game artwork we're getting. This is thoroughly depressing.
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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Postby Worm Mad » Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:28 pm

The best game Team17 have done in recent years was Worms Crazy Golf, which was a spin-off, and actually felt like the people making it were having fun. The problem with all the traditional Worms games post-Worms 4 is that they've felt kind of like their heart isn't in it. I felt like they reached their peak with 2D worms with Armageddon/WWP and were right to move to 3D, to take the franchise in a new direction. Worms 3D, while not everything it promised, was at least a ballsy attempt at making a 3D Worms game. Worms 4 refined things and I genuinely enjoyed it (in contrast, the recent 'deluxe' version, Worms Ultimate Mayhem somehow managed to seem less polished than the original).

But then they seemed to put their hands in the air and go "Oh, everyone just wants 2D traditional worms games. I guess we'll just make them!". Which would be fine, I guess, except they don't seem to have any real enthusiasm for these new games. They're just tweaking what they've done before and hoping that it works. Despite all that, I'm still hopeful (though not particularly optimistic) that Clan Wars will find a way to make the gimmicks of Revolution work. We'll see.

This, however is very good news:

However, Team 17 is looking at doing more than just Worms in the future, as Dave explains. “We’re looking at trying to give Worms a rest next year” he says. “We’ve got a few new concepts and ideas we’re reviewing”. With Team 17′s track record, a totally new game from them is an exciting prospect.


From http://www.joyviews.com/2013/06/23/rezz ... m-day-one/ (although that pic clearly isn't from Clan Wars)
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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Postby SupSuper » Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:49 pm

People always say they want Team17 to do something different, but when they do everyone just kinda shrugs it off. :P Even the Lemmings remake didn't gather the amount of attention that Worms does.
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Postby Thurbo » Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:28 pm

Day/Night cycle comparison screenshots fyi.

Image
Image



Image
Image

Looks quite pretty too, but I'll have to see it on a big screen before I can really decide.
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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Postby MtlAngelus » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:11 pm

SupSuper wrote:People always say they want Team17 to do something different, but when they do everyone just kinda shrugs it off. :P Even the Lemmings remake didn't gather the amount of attention that Worms does.

You mean like Leisure Suit Larry: Box Office Bust? :P
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Re:

Postby StepS » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:31 pm

Thurbo wrote:Day/Night cycle

oh. so thats at least something that never was in Worms before. good to know
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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Postby SupSuper » Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:25 pm

MtlAngelus wrote:
SupSuper wrote:People always say they want Team17 to do something different, but when they do everyone just kinda shrugs it off. :P Even the Lemmings remake didn't gather the amount of attention that Worms does.

You mean like Leisure Suit Larry: Box Office Bust? :P

Given nobody expected anything good after Magna Cum Laude, you could say they nailed it. :P
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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Postby Star and Moon » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:31 am

It looks good! I may not jump to buy this one immediately (unless the pre-order bonuses are irresistible like Revolution's were) but I want to try it out eventually.

Also despite other's opinions, I actually enjoyed playing Revolution.
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