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Worms DS

For Boggy B and his mates. If they existed, of course.

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Worms DS

Postby Jonah » Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:28 pm

Hi.

Well from the screenshots things look good but for me, the make or break comes in whether the game will be wifi or not. I've heard that it's not going to be, if this is the case then I don't feel that I could spend money on it. The games best feature is multiplayer but living where I do and knowing who I know, I could not have multiplayer games unless a wifi option was implemented.

What do you guys think?
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Postby Cyclaws » Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:08 pm

It won't be Wi-fi, I'm afraid.

As for getting it, I will. I know lots of people with a DS, and will enjoy the single player part as well.
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Postby SupSuper » Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:43 pm

I never enjoyed the single player part of any Worms game.
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Dissatisfaction

Postby Jonah » Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:43 pm

Well thanks team 17, you've killed it for me even before it's released.
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Postby worMatty » Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:01 pm

Team' seem to do this a lot with online play. I guess it's to do with the cost of running a server.

Is it not conceivable to put direct play and server play in the game but keep the server play as an option until servers can be set up? Maybe the community wishes to set up their own servers? What's changed these days that disallows it, if anything?

EDIT: They might be saving online play for the sequel!
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Postby AndrewTaylor » Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:36 am

SupSuper wrote:I never enjoyed the single player part of any Worms game.

There is no single player worms. There are single player missions that use the Worms engine, but they're not really worms. Otherwise, there is a multiplayer mode where one player is not human. But that's still really multiplayer. But that doesn't mean that it has to be online either.

Personally, I don't think multiplayer games are suited to handhelds at all -- either you have to have two people on one machine, which is a pain, two machines, which is prohibitively expensive and/or a pain, or an internet connection, which removes most of the "portability" aspect.

Worms is a game that techology has outgrown. It's a great game and I love it to bits, but its prime was in the days when a 2D game on an Amiga or a PC was about all you could do. Turn-based was the only practical sort of multiplayer, 2D was the only practical graphics mode, and Worms was more-or-less the ideal game for those limitations. Now we're in a world where multiplayer gamers expect an internet connection and console owners expect 3D, and PC gamers expect real-time action, and Worms is still plodding away just as it was in the early 90's. It's just as good as it ever was, but it doesn't fit as easily onto modern systems.

As far as I'm concerned the ideal selling point of a handheld is that it should be cheap and not require a major investment of time. The DS is perfect for that -- it's something like a quarter of the price of a PSP and its games are largely ones you can pick up, mess about on for ten minutes and put down, such as Meteos, MarioKart, and Polarium. Worms would be good for that, but if I'm using it that way, I don't want to bother someone on the other side of the world, and I certainly don't want to have to wait for them to connect or for their lag. A crash, or them quitting, would ruin the whole game. I'd much sooner play the AI, or challenge attractive strangers on the bus. Anything that gives me an excuse to talk to attractive strangers is a good idea in my book.

In much the same way, I'd far rather a version of Worms that was smooth and played nicely, but lacked online play and had a limited graphic/sound repartoire to a beautifully polished online one that took twice as long to make and cost three times as much. That would be wasted money for me.

I reckon Worms DS would be best enjoyed by two friends on a bus or in a boring lecture or something, where they're forced to sit next to each other with not much to do. Not by two strangers on different continents.

Blimey, I've nattered on a bit today.
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Postby worMatty » Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:37 pm

AndrewTaylor wrote:
SupSuper wrote:I never enjoyed the single player part of any Worms game.

There is no single player worms. There are single player missions that use the Worms engine, but they're not really worms. Otherwise, there is a multiplayer mode where one player is not human. But that's still really multiplayer. But that doesn't mean that it has to be online either.
Dan said he never enjoyed the single player part of any Worms game, he didn't specify a game of Worms. Besides, you know what he means.

AndrewTaylor wrote:Personally, I don't think multiplayer games are suited to handhelds at all -- either you have to have two people on one machine, which is a pain, two machines, which is prohibitively expensive and/or a pain, or an internet connection, which removes most of the "portability" aspect.
But:
AndrewTaylor wrote:As far as I'm concerned the ideal selling point of a handheld is that it should be cheap and not require a major investment of time. The DS is perfect for that
Not too expensive, then? Portable gaming is less expensive than PC and console gaming considering hardware cost. I accept you don't think handhelds are suitable for multiplayers but how less suitable are they than home consoles? At least with a portable unit you have a better chance of finding someone to play with since you can take the thing around with you. The DS gets around the internet portability problem with WiFi and its future WiFi network.

AndrewTaylor wrote:Worms is a game that techology has outgrown. It's a great game and I love it to bits, but its prime was in the days when a 2D game on an Amiga or a PC was about all you could do. Turn-based was the only practical sort of multiplayer, 2D was the only practical graphics mode, and Worms was more-or-less the ideal game for those limitations.
The Amiga was capable of hosting real-time multiplayer games in 2D in that era. Jaguar XJ220 was split-screen and controllable with two joysticks. Then there's QWAK and others which I can't remember right now. I wouldn't say turn-based was the only practical way of playing games unless you were a hardcore keyboard user who disliked joysticks or you played your games in an airing cupboard.

AndrewTaylor wrote:Now we're in a world where multiplayer gamers expect an internet connection and console owners expect 3D, and PC gamers expect real-time action, and Worms is still plodding away just as it was in the early 90's. It's just as good as it ever was, but it doesn't fit as easily onto modern systems.
By systems I assume you mean social ones, not hardware. Turn-based games probably don't appeal to today's gamers as much as they did back then with the technical limitations. I don't think the gaming mass is patient enough to give such a game a chance, so 2D Worms relies on smaller systems because of peoples' expectations, and its reputation. It has a larger share of the audience there.

AndrewTaylor wrote:As far as I'm concerned the ideal selling point of a handheld is that it should be cheap and not require a major investment of time. The DS is perfect for that -- it's something like a quarter of the price of a PSP and its games are largely ones you can pick up, mess about on for ten minutes and put down, such as Meteos, MarioKart, and Polarium. Worms would be good for that, but if I'm using it that way, I don't want to bother someone on the other side of the world, and I certainly don't want to have to wait for them to connect or for their lag. A crash, or them quitting, would ruin the whole game. I'd much sooner play the AI, or challenge attractive strangers on the bus. Anything that gives me an excuse to talk to attractive strangers is a good idea in my book.
If they were to make it 'net playable then they could put in a 'quick game' mode that just found some people around the world who were after a quick game and put you together. If Nintendo brings out their WiFi service lag issues should be reduced. I don't understand why most developers don't come up with these obvious simple solutions but it might have something to do with publisher requirements, which may also have something to do with the Worms DS lack of online play (or Team17 stating "You did not specify online play!").
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Postby AndrewTaylor » Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:27 pm

worMatty wrote:If they were to make it 'net playable then they could put in a 'quick game' mode that just found some people around the world who were after a quick game and put you together. If Nintendo brings out their WiFi service lag issues should be reduced. I don't understand why most developers don't come up with these obvious simple solutions but it might have something to do with publisher requirements, which may also have something to do with the Worms DS lack of online play (or Team17 stating "You did not specify online play!").

That would make it more likely that one of my opponents would quit.

If I'm playing Worms on a handheld the odds are that I haven't got the option to keep playing until the game is over no matter how long that may be. I've got to stop playing when I reach my stop or when my lecture starts or whatever. I want to be able to stop without ruining someone's day. And I don't want my opponents to quit because they've reached their stop or their lecture has begun or whatever.

You can add all the features and options you want, but that intrinsic limitation will remain. The only time I know I'll have time for a full game is when I'm at home, during which times I can play on a PC.

Maybe other people are in different situations, but as far as I'm concerned internet play as it is understood now on a handheld is largely pointless.
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Postby worMatty » Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:52 pm

Since internet play over handhelds has only just started with the PSP and DS there may not be many situations but there are games which you will not be able to play on a PC or home console that you would like to play on a handheld, and the fact that a handheld is cheaper than a high-spec PC is appealing.

I find the average game of Worms is fifteen minutes. If I was going to play a quick internet game I would do so knowing this and with the intention of finishing the game. You are right about the intrinsic limitation but that can and probably will change over time as handheld internet play becomes more popular.

Jonah I think you're overreacting.
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Postby SupSuper » Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:25 pm

worMatty wrote:
AndrewTaylor wrote:
SupSuper wrote:I never enjoyed the single player part of any Worms game.

There is no single player worms. There are single player missions that use the Worms engine, but they're not really worms. Otherwise, there is a multiplayer mode where one player is not human. But that's still really multiplayer. But that doesn't mean that it has to be online either.
Dan said he never enjoyed the single player part of any Worms game, he didn't specify a game of Worms. Besides, you know what he means.
I meant in any Worms game I have never enjoyed playing alone / against the computer. Training, missions, deathmatches, etc.
Worms has always been much more fun against humans, whether hotseat or LAN/online. Whether "non-hotseat support" will be in WOW is not really a concern of mine, so I'll stay out of this.
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Worms DS

Postby Jonah » Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:49 pm

Overreacting, I don't think so. Let me explain why.

First of all, not everyone has friends with a DS that they can play with. Worms is a great game when your competing with others, playing against the computer is no way near as much fun. And living on an island amongst people who are mostly of the older generation, you will see why I crave for WiFi.

Secondly, Team 17 is trying to introduce a new generation to the Worms genre. Not being funny but if I wanted to play a good game of worms legally, I could download the files of directors cut from this site, boot up my emulator and have a bash without paying anything. I need a little bit more from Team 17 that will convince me to part with my hard earned money. Worms DS is not doing that for me at the moment.

One should not buy a game because it carries the name of a much loved franchise or has been developed by a much loved company.
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Re: Worms DS

Postby AndrewTaylor » Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:52 pm

Jonah wrote:Not being funny but if I wanted to play a good game of worms legally, I could download the files of directors cut from this site, boot up my emulator and have a bash without paying anything.

You'd better not be basing your argument on the assumption that the average person has UAE, can get it to work, knows about this site, has heard of W:DC...

The fact that it's worms on the DS is enough for a lot of people to buy it -- it's Worms you can play on the move. That is in itself added functionality.
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Re: Worms DS

Postby Jonah » Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:30 pm

AndrewTaylor wrote:
Jonah wrote:Not being funny but if I wanted to play a good game of worms legally, I could download the files of directors cut from this site, boot up my emulator and have a bash without paying anything.

You'd better not be basing your argument on the assumption that the average person has UAE, can get it to work, knows about this site, has heard of W:DC...

The fact that it's worms on the DS is enough for a lot of people to buy it -- it's Worms you can play on the move. That is in itself added functionality.


The fact is the best of Worms is available free now via emulaton or by spending a few pounds in a local computer store.
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Postby Squirminator2k » Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:15 am

But you can't play Worms with ease whilst on the bus. WWP Advance came quite close, but it didn't cut it. WWP NGage was a triumph, but only for the sad half-dozen people who bought the console itself. You can buy a laptop, certainly, but it's rather cumbersome. You could use Homebrew emulators for the PSP, but you'd really only be able to play the SNES, MegaDrive, or GameBoy versions of the game. You could possibly play the Amiga version - there is a functional A500 emulator - but whether or not Worms works with it is another matter, as it doesn't support Kickstart 1.3.

You could download the Mobile Java version. But I don't think you hate yourself enough to do that.

So far, the PSP version looks lovely, and the DS version looks handy if a little rough around the edges in places. Both versionsare certainly topping my "Necessary Purchase" list.
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Review

Postby Jonah » Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:39 pm

Could someone post a review of this game when they get it?
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Postby Squirminator2k » Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:12 pm

Cyclaws intends to, once he gets his review copy.
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worms ds

Postby Bring back frog » Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:56 pm

i was hopeing it would be 3d like worms 3d and worms 4 but no all they did is made a 2d one.
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Re: worms ds

Postby Paul.Power » Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:23 pm

Bring back frog wrote:i was hopeing it would be 3d like worms 3d and worms 4 but no all they did is made a 2d one.
Given that a) 2D is what the majority of fans would prefer anyway and b) the limitations of the consoles would effectively give you Hogs of War but with Worms, I can't say I agree with you.
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Postby Pieboy337 » Sat Mar 25, 2006 5:42 pm

well it seems that worms for the ds is very buggy. But it is a good game. :D
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worms ds

Postby Bring back frog » Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:49 pm

the single player is only 20 challanges and theres not even wi-fi on the ds version.

i exspected more from worms open war ware.
as long as the psp version has wi-fi am sure people will still enjoy it.
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