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Lemmings on PS3

Team17 makes other games? I had no idea!

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Lemmings on PS3

Postby K^2 » Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:51 pm

Since I am a persona non grata on T17 forums, can someone tell me what is the buzz on the new Lemmings game?
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Postby Pooka » Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:10 pm

Not much known. Someone found some screenshots and there was a buzz floating around for some time (as the shots were labelled 'Lemmings 2') until Spadge confirmed that, yes, it was a new Team17-developed Lemmings game, and it was going to be for the upcoming PS3.

[If that ever comes out.]

It's an entirely new game, rather than a remake of the original Lemmings 2 ("The Tribes").
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Postby SupSuper » Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:58 pm

Some screenshots of PS3 games from Sony's Gamers Day were published, and a new Lemmings was one of them, and Team17 confirmed it was theirs. That's all that's known. You might find more on Spadge's blog.

I put up said screenshots: http://www.dream17.co.uk/softography.ph ... &s=screens
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Postby K^2 » Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:30 pm

Did they mention anything about mouse support?
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Postby SupSuper » Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:33 pm

Spadge wrote:A USB mouse will not be a mass-market interface for the PS3, so there was no consideration by Sony to support it.
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Postby Squirminator2k » Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:53 pm

Well that's just pants.

...

Maybe they'll do something interesting with the motion sensor.
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Postby K^2 » Sun Nov 12, 2006 4:00 am

That IS pants. How is USB mouse not mass market? You don't have to buy a special PS3 mouse. You can use ANY USB MOUSE. How many people do you know who don't have one.
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Postby AndrewTaylor » Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:28 pm

Personally? Quite a lot.
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Postby K^2 » Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:22 am

That was meant to be rhetoric, but fine. Everyone who uses a PC has access to a mouse. I don't know how about UK, but in US you are going to have trouble finding a non-USB mouse. Most mice still support PS/2, but you have to run it through an adapter. Furthermore, the fact that you don't need to buy a special Sony mouse means that you can buy one for $5. Maybe even less if you look arround. Again, maybe mice are outrageously expensive in UK; I don't know. If in UK USB mice really are rare devices, then I can at least understand such a decision, but in US, there are going to be a lot of pissed off gamers.
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Postby AndrewTaylor » Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:58 am

Well, no, they're dirt cheap and as common as muck. But I know quite a few people who either don't have PCs, or have old PS2 mice. I assumed it was rhetoric, but I alsoassumed you thought the answer would be "none", and it wasn't.
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Postby Bloopy » Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:39 am

There's a couple of PS/2 mice sitting around at my work, but most of the laptops don't have the port to plug them into.
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Postby K^2 » Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:30 pm

AndrewTaylor wrote:Well, no, they're dirt cheap and as common as muck. But I know quite a few people who either don't have PCs, or have old PS2 mice. I assumed it was rhetoric, but I alsoassumed you thought the answer would be "none", and it wasn't.

In that case, what is the fraction of the people that you know and who might get a PS3 and Lemmings would either already have a USB mouse or would get one to use mouse interface in Lemmings if such was available?
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Postby AndrewTaylor » Thu Nov 16, 2006 4:42 pm

K^2 wrote:In that case, what is the fraction of the people that you know and who might get a PS3 and Lemmings would either already have a USB mouse or would get one to use mouse interface in Lemmings if such was available?

Well, that's a tricky question because that number is mathematically undefined.
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Postby K^2 » Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:32 pm

How about this.

Sum[P(person will get PS3) * P(person will get Lemmings) * (P(person has USB mouse) OR P(person will get mouse for Lemmings))] / Sum[P(person will get PS3) * P(person will get Lemmings)]

P(x) denotes probability of x, and the operator OR is to be treated as a fuzzy logic operator. Both sums are to be evaluated over the set of all people that you know well enough to judge the necessary probabilities.

Now it is mathematically defined. Go evaluate.
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Postby Squirminator2k » Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:20 am

Oh, bugger that - no algebraic mathematics to speculate the probabilities of real-world happenings on my forum, lads.
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Postby K^2 » Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:43 am

I didn't want to go there myself, but if that's the only way that AT would accept an argument...

And I don't think that "Sony told us..." is a legitimate excuse on T17's part. The API for mouse support is there. To include it as an undocumented feature would take 30 minutes of coding time at most. If it is an undocumented feature, it does not need to be extensively tested. If use of mouse causes crashes, it is not Sony's or T17's responsibility, since USB mouse is not part of standard equipment. I'm not saying it would cause problems, but since it's not their responsibility, they do not have to waste time testing it, so there is really not an excuse not to include the feature.
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Postby Squirminator2k » Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:36 pm

K^2 wrote:I didn't want to go there myself, but if that's the only way that AT would accept an argument...

And I don't think that "Sony told us..." is a legitimate excuse on T17's part. The API for mouse support is there. To include it as an undocumented feature would take 30 minutes of coding time at most.

Sony are the publisher, and from my experience what they say usually goes.
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Postby K^2 » Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:47 pm

If it's simply implemented for "testing purposes" and then not removed, I don't see how Sony would know about it, and even if they do, why would they make an issue out of it? All of the testing will be done without a mouse. The question should never even come up.
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Postby AndrewTaylor » Wed Nov 29, 2006 4:34 pm

K^2 wrote:To include it as an undocumented feature would take 30 minutes of coding time at most.

I think that's disputed somewhat, but I'm not going to argue the point. It depends on a lot of things that I don't know, having never written a console game or seen how Lemmings PS3 is coded.
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Postby Skank » Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:24 am

In fairness on the PS2 a mouse and keyboard were not explicitly 'compatible' with the console, however I have used both for a long time on a ps2 with no problems, including internet games.

In fact as far as I can remember Red Faction 2 allowed you to set up a mouse and keyboard configuration (i.e. what keyboard key did what function in game) allowing you to play it with the old mouse and wasdf config.

However, considering the simplicity of the controls for Lemmings, I don't think it will be hard to play without a mouse. I mean what are you going to lose out on?
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